MyDD :: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ?

What Kind of Frontrunner is this ?

by labanman, Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:40:56 PM EST

The release of this latest Gallup really takes us all to the BIG QUESTION.

What in the world kind of supposed Frontrunner do we have as Democrats ?

Lets look at some VERY DISTURBING facts from Gallup & results of this primary:

1)A strong percentage of his partymates want him to drop-out.

2) An even larger percentage of his very same democratic partymates will ABSOLUTELY NOT VOTE for HIM in November & many even plan to vote for his opponent McCain.

3)He has lost 7 of the 8 Largest Electoral College states in the country among his party mates. ( which All the matters in the General election Winner take all Electoral college count)

4)Or to be more direct, he has LOST 9 out of the 11 LARGEST Electoral College states in the country.

4) He is literally losing with his very own partymates among WHITE VOTERS at 65-35, among LATINO voters by 2 to 1, among ASIAN voters by 3 to 1, among Jewish voters by 2 to 1, and among Catholic voters by 2 to 1.

Did I miss something here? Are we attempting to elect a President of the United States of America or is he running to be President of the African-American community ?

How in the world can you expect this supposed Frontrunner
to win a National Election in November IF he cannot even carry ANY RACIAL or Ethnic Group WITHIN his own very party ?

A group of his partymates called democrats who HAPPEN to BE the MOST LIBERAL & OPEN group of Whites,Latinos,Asians, Jews & Catholics in america. Without a doubt, to the Left of White,Latino,Asian, Jewish & catholic registered Republicans!

So what the hell is WRONG with our Supposed Frontrunner?

No Poll, No Political Scientist, No Democratic Elder, No Expert Political Blogger NEEDS to Tell all of us that - ATTENTION DEMOCRATS - YOU HAVE A BIG BIG PROBLEM with your "SUPPOSED" FRONTRUNNER !

I don't claim to know what's wrong with him. But one thing I do now, this supposed Frontrunner of ours WILL LOSE this November 2008 my landslide margins NOT seen in over 20 years!

Democrats have to ask themselves. Are we trying to bring back memories of a Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis or our Democratic version of Barry Goldwater ?

Tags: Frontrunner, Obama, Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 82 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

Barack Obama is a cyberland President?

by Myleftfoot on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:46:55 PM EST

I believe that was Ron Paul (none / 0)

with Vice-President Edwards.

Wonder where all those kids went.

"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan

by pinche tejano on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My deal: Get rid of this sentence... (none / 0)

...and I'll rec this diary!

Are we attempting to elect a President of the United States of America or is he running to be President of the African-American community?

Because, at the end of the day, a lot of voters and a lot of Superdelegates are asking a lot of the same (OTHER) questions you are!

by bobswern on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:47:34 PM EST

Keep that sentence (2.00 / 3)

Actually, that is the key question that Sen. Obama will have to work to address.

You could have phrased it more tactfully, but that is the question that is hurting Sen. Obama now.

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

Right, Iowa was full of black people...

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

haven't you heard..Iowa is ancient history.

Did you hear about MS ? Rev Wright ? About the polls that this diarist refers to ?

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

Yea and Obama addressed it, and hes still got a large portion of the white vote, people arnt stupid, they realize that had nothing to do with obama, only Hillbots like your self keep bringing it up.

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:05:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (2.00 / 1)

If Obama had addressed it, this diarist would not have a case.

He is losing in most demographics, even within his own party. That IS a problem !!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is it a problem? (none / 0)

It really shouldn't be. He's winning the only number that matters: delegates.

It's like complaining after a basketball game that its a problem that one team had more three pointers and free throws, but it doesn't matter because the final score is what counts.

Anyway, this election is much more geographical than demographical.

(with some exceptions)
Hillary wins:
the Northeast
the Ohio River Valley (from Arkansas to Appalachia)
the Southwest

Obama wins:
New England (far Northeast)
the South
the Upper Midwest through the Upper Mountain west to the Northwest

Those divides are much starker than any of the demographic divides, at least to me.

by bawbie on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is it a problem? (2.00 / 1)

It is a problem for 2 reasons:

(a) he cannot win the GE without winning over more demographics. There have been some excellent diaries on this topic. Essentially, he is going to lose the white vote overall (democrats always lose the white vote; but he is expected to lose by a bigger margin), and to make up for that, he will need a bigger majority from latinos and asians. Democrats have typically done well with latinos and asians, but he will have to do even better (to make up for the loss of white votes). The fact that his support within latinos and asians is so weak.... is...well, you get the point

(b) even if he were to win with only the black demographics giving him a majority, (say, if there is a 3rd party candidate), he would be tarred as the "black president", and be unable to govern.

That is the problem. I am dumbfounded that Sen. Obama's supporters do not realize it!!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is it a problem? (none / 0)

And you get draw all of those general election conclusions from primary exit polls?

That's comparing apples to oranges.

If you have any credible evidence that Obama performs behind Clinton amongst white voters in the general election, please show it to me.
If you have any credible evidence that asians and latinos would "abandon" Obama in the general election, please show it to me.

by bawbie on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is it a problem? (none / 0)

I have NO intention of wasting my time, and rehashing evidence that you have seen dozens of times.

So, why dont YOU show ME ANY credible evidence you have that Sen. Obama win the GE. You know..like the GE polls which suggest that he is winning by the landslide, or even by a tiny margin!

Or that Sen Obama is not losing the white vote, or the latino vote, or the asian vote.

Or, perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by latinos and asians not "abandoning" Sen Obama in the GE...they are not with him now, so abandoning him would be somewhat hard !!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

So he will probably be whipped all to hell in PA, IN, NC and on into the rest of the primaries? All this trash-talking is meaningless. The only thing that will count is the actual voting that is coming up. And I believe you will find that your post is quickly forgotten and meaningless after Obama wins several more primaries and loses a few by small margins.

by Becky G on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:30:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

Wisconsin, North Dakota, Vermont,Kansas....

by Becky G on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

MS, AL, GA, SC....

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (1.25 / 4)

More and more every day, I wonder about the democrats supporting Hillary on MyDD. I get the impression that y'all don't like AAs much.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, of course... (2.00 / 3)

throwing smears like "they dont like black people" is very much like "she dont cry for black people"... and that is what got us here in the first place.

Be careful when you implicitly accuse others of racism, you might be asked to back it up... and everyone knows you are speaking out of your rear end!!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, of course... (2.00 / 1)

Your the one bringing up Rev Wright

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does bringing up Rev Wright (2.00 / 1)

mean that I do not like AAs all that much ?

Be careful what you say here...I might ask you to back up your implied assertion too!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (none / 0)

If Obama had addressed it, this diarist would not have a case.

He is losing in most demographics, even within his own party. That IS a problem !!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (none / 0)

Why did the diarist bring race into this diary?

"Are we attempting to elect a President of the United States of America or is he running to be President of the African-American community?"

I could say that Hillary is running to be president of just women.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (2.00 / 2)

I suspect the diarist brought race into the conversation because race is an issue in this campaign.

You brought racism into the conversation with your stupid "y'all dont like black people" smear.

Hillary is winning the latino and asian demographics (male and female), and I think she is also winning the white male demographic (not entirely sure about this one).. you would have a hard time arguing that she is running to be president of just women

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (2.00 / 1)

The diarist brought race into this diary first, and I commented how on most diaries from Hillary supporters when they talk about race, seem to not like AAs that much. This is how I see it. Maybe I am wrong, and am reading too much into it.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:47:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (none / 0)

I am white by the way.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does bringing up Rev Wright (2.00 / 1)

I dont care...I am not white, btw!!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They seem to like AAs fine... (none / 0)

...when they prove they're not racists by voting for Clinton.

It's fairly depressing.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep that sentence (none / 0)

The fact this was rec'd at all, says some sick things about some of the lurkers on the site.

by apolitik on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes because (1.00 / 1)

we don't want those pesky blacks having a say in who becomes our nominee. If it's a white guy then we definitely want their votes.

Wish Hillary good luck winning Ohio without carrying huge margins in Cuyahoga and Franklin County. It's going to be tough winning PA if you're not running up the score in Philly. What are the chances she even sniffs Missouri if she doesn't win big in St. Louis?

Attitudes like yours is part of the reason that Hillary wouldn't win as nominee - She will do more to depress AA than any other Democrat in recent history.

by highgrade on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes because (none / 0)

Ha. Ha. Ha. There's nothing of substance to actual respond to here.

by apolitik on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Respond to (none / 0)

Whether Hillary can win Ohio without carrying huge margins in Franklin/Cuyahoga county.

by highgrade on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 02:18:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

For some reason, you Hillary supporters don't seem to understand that EITHER Hillary or Obama is going to win states like NY, CA, MA, IL. It doesn't matter in the slightest that she won the primary in CA, for example; either candidate will easily beat McCain there.

There's no bonus for winning big states, no glory or extra credit associated with it. It's just a rhetorical tool used to try and pump up a failed candidate.

by Cycloptichorn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:49:11 PM EST

Two words for you: (none / 0)

Florida, Michigan.

by bobswern on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:54:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two words for you: (none / 0)

Obama is polling higher in MI then Hillary, last I checked.

I disagree with your unsourced and unfounded assertion on this matter. Your answer also did not directly address mine, but instead went off on a tangent.

by Cycloptichorn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:57:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your belligerence is noted! (none / 0)

I have a two-word comment. You make a bunch of assertions about eleection results with no links? Just who's making "unsourced and unfounded assertions" here?

Your comments are devoid of reality, not the least being assumptions about November results based upon candidate's positions in March?

We have yet to see many, many factors affecting the outcome of this...for instance:

--a concerted effort to by various factions to make Obama unattractive to the Jewish bloc (Ooops! there goes New York and Florida...);

--$250 million in Rethug 527 money buys a lot of Independent and Democratic votes;

--ongoing slamming of Obama if he's the nominee by a variety of other sources;

--disaffected Democratic/Hillary voters in Michigan and Florida, whom, based upon today's numbers in the diary currently on the top of this blog's front page, as a bloc will peel off approx. 28% of their numbers and vote for McCain.

So, there's a LOT that can happen in terms of shifts in political sentiment(s) 7 days, let alone more than 7 months, which is when we'll be into the top of November...

So, stop it with your ridiculous assertions and speculation; and talk along the lines regarding pot vs. kettle...you have a hell of a lot of nerve accusing OTHERS of this, when you appear to be the one most at fault as far as this bogus habit is concerned, IMHO!

by bobswern on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:29:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

Obama puts Mass in play. We all know that because we have seen the polling.

by americanincanada on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 2)

Did I miss something here? Are we attempting to elect a President of the United States of America or is he running to be President of the African-American community ? Wow your really a piece of work, if hes such a bad front runner what does that make hillary? Hes got more vote, more delegates and more states. Thats why hes a front runner and he didn't have to make up fake war stories to get there.

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:49:30 PM EST

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

your right, clinton is a electable war hero!!!! <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uHVEDq6RVXc&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uHVEDq6RVXc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

I cant get the embed to work so here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RV Xc&feature=user

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are Clinton Supporters really Democrats (2.00 / 1)

Clinton won the states that matter? Here we go aganin with saying some states don't matter. The shit is really flying today from Clinton Camp Desperation. Hillary's Bosnia lie is all over the news and now you guys are running scared so you're back to the kitchen sink. You also have more to be worried about today, because as I write this Hillary's membership in "The family", an ultra right wing religious organization, is now being reported on the news shows.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

He sure had to embellish a lot of things and play some pretty dirty politics to get there. See, you're point is moot. Try to argue on these sites with a little more, heh, logic instead.

by apolitik on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:49:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He has more delegates (none / 0)

that's why he is the "frontrunner".

He has more elected delegates.

He has more delegates total.

There odds of Hillary catching up are slim.

To put it even more simply: the odds of him being the nominee are very very good. Thus, he's the "frontrunner".

by bawbie on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:51:03 PM EST

Re: He has more delegates (none / 0)

But all that doesnt matter! Cause black people like him!

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has more delegates (none / 0)

And i guess that black people dont matter, you know that 28% that jerome mentioned? the hillary supporters that wont vote for obama, i have a feeling that they feel the same way

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 2)

even states like Idaho and Utah have a tiny fraction of "activists" who were very enthusiastic for Obama and dominated the early caucus states. I am not saying the caucus system was designed to favor Obama, but rather that his "followers" saw an opportunity and went for it very aggressively. Actual voters in those states will support McCain by wide margins in November.

Very few of his primary states will actually "go blue" in November.

It will be interesting to see what the turnout actually is for younger voters in November. My guess? They will be "tired of politics" by then and not show up in sufficiant numbers. The older voters are more reliable. Hillary wins by about 2:1 among 65+ voters while Obama wins by about 2: 1 among under 40 voters. But which will actually vote in November?

Dean needs to be fired as soon as this is over. He totally screwed up his own campaign in 2004, so we give him the job of heading our party in 2008? Brilliant, just brilliant.

by WolfmanJack on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:52:27 PM EST

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 2)

Wolfman,

You are 100% accurate.

Lets be honest.

If the DNC head was any other person, the netroots community would be demanding the resignation of the DNC head because of FL & MI.

But because Dr. Dean is popular & well liked in the liberal netroots community, there is almost Deafening SILENCE !

If this was Joe Andrews, Ron Brown, Wilhelm or any other person, the netroots community led by Kos would DEMAND his resignation.

The screw up in FL & MI is way beyond the primary. This has serious, direct implications for the General election.

Any other person than Dean would have received pressure from bloggers to quit.

by labanman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obvious contradiction (2.00 / 2)

In the same post you acknowledge Obama is the frontrunner, you selectively include how nobody is voting for him. You sound like Yogi Berra, "Nobody goes there, it's too crowded."

Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo

by rb608 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:54:04 PM EST

Picking cherries is fun. (none / 0)

Most of the poll numbers you cite look even worse for Senator Clinton. Specifically, her supporters are quite eager to jump ship and vote for McCain. Funny how you only cited Senator Obama's numbers.

by McNasty on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:55:36 PM EST

Re: Picking cherries is fun. (none / 0)

Read the headline: this is about the frontrunner and Hillary is not the front runner.

by yogi41 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

More proof that the Rev. Wright story has long legs for Obama.

The frontrunner`s mentor, Rev. Wright, has cancelled all appearances in Texas this weekend that were to honor him.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/ dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032708dnmetwri ght.11989d0.html

by mcctx on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:56:26 PM EST

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 0)

Because of security issues. The MSM may with their continuing with their Rev Wright bashing could cause him to be assasinated. I read his other sermons and he is somebody I would listen too on Sundays. I don't think the Clintons would have invited him to the White House twice if they didn't think he was worthy of respect. In fact Hillary sat right next to Rev Wright during the breakfast. You don't let anyone sit next to the first lady.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 2)

If this is true, why don't you do us all a favor? Why don't you create a Youtube video of clips from Wright's sermons that show how Rev. Wright is in fact a force for inter-racial healing and understanding, rather than inter-racial acrimony. Because a lot of people aren't getting that impression, even some of us who have watched longer clips of his sermons. If you could succeed in doing that, you could really help your candidate out.

I don't think the Clintons would have invited him to the White House twice if they didn't think he was worthy of respect. In fact Hillary sat right next to Rev Wright during the breakfast. You don't let anyone sit next to the first lady.

What I don't understand is why he accept their invitation, given his obvious contempt for the Clintons.

Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings

by Inky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

I am sure Rev Wright did not have contempt for the Clintons until they earned it with their comment on how Obama winning was a fairy tale. He probably lost his temper, which I did too. By the way I am a woman who will never forgive the Clintons on how negative they have been during this whole campaign. Hillary's comments on Rev Wright yesterday just put the topping on it.

by Spanky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 1)

First of all, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Wright's tirade against the Clintons was delivered in December of 2007, well before the "fairytale" comment.

Second, I can't believe that you are still perpetuating the LIE (to use a favorite term of Obama supporters) that Clinton ever implied that Obama or his campaign was a fairytale -- that's been debunked many times, but let me repeat what Clinton actually said:

"But since you raised the judgment issue, let's go over this again. That is the central argument for his campaign. 'It doesn't matter that I started running for president less a year after I got to the Senate from the Illinois State Senate. I am a great speaker and a charismatic figure and I'm the only one who had the judgment to oppose this war from the beginning. Always, always, always.' "

"First it is factually not true that everybody that supported that resolution supported Bush attacking Iraq before the UN inspectors were through. Chuck Hagel was one of the co-authors of that resolution. The only Republican Senator that always opposed the war. Every day from the get-go. He authored the resolution to say that Bush could go to war only if they didn't co-operate with the inspectors and he was assured personally by Condi Rice as many of the other Senators were. So, first the case is wrong that way."

"Second, it is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, numerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say, that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war and you took that speech you're now running on off your website in 2004 and there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since?' Give me a break."

"This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

So, once again, the "fairytale" referred to Obama's position on the Iraq war, which as Clinton correctly pointed out, has not been as consistent as Obama has repeatedly claimed.

Let me know if you are still confused.

Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings

by Inky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've been posting that for days now. (none / 0)

I posted a diary last week listing a bunch of youtube sermons for Wright that do as you ask. You can't make a 30 second clip that highlights the best of Jeremiah Wright, because true context comes from a 5 or 10 minute sermon that has a beginning, middle, and end, with nuance and rising and falling cadence.

My diary was ignored in favor of hatchet jobs aimed at both candidates.

Wright's contempt for the Clintons most likely came after that breakfast, by the way. I'm guessing that he didn't appreciate being used as a mea culpa stunt the day Bill admitted to fooling around on his wife.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been posting that for days now. (none / 0)

I watched a couple of those sermons and I didn't see it. Perhaps you should post the best of the lot and I'll watch it.

Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings

by Inky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've been posting that for days now. (none / 0)

Just go to YouTube and the user "TRINITYCHGO"

That's all the sermons they put up themselves, and will be the least edited (the controversial ones are still up there, with all the "bad parts" still in there, so they're not trying to hide anything).

I don't know what will resonate with you, so do your own research.

One that definitely got me was the one where he was talking about God's love being like a mother's love... simple concept, but he could bring such emotion to it.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he's won more than AA, think IOWA, the real prob. (2.00 / 4)

for is the influence of undemocratic system called a caucus....without which Obama would NOT be winning

DEMOCRATIC 08!

by rigsoHC on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:58:54 PM EST

Re: he's won more than AA, think IOWA, the real pr (none / 0)

Where was the outrage before Hillary lost?

by anujtron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

State of denial (2.00 / 1)

Why are you guys still bringing up how unfair the caucus's are. It's always one excuse or another for why Hillary is losing. If you would only face reality, more people voted for Obama then Clinton, you could move past this state of denial and move on with your grieving process. Democrats need to win in Nov., no matter who or nominee is.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

please. its not a state of denial (none / 0)

I know she is losing, and I'm saying one of the main reasons she is losing... I'll vote for Obama, I feel the same way about winning in Nov... But i have said and still say, caucuses suck, they are undemocratic, i said i back in 04, and i'm still saying it.

DEMOCRATIC 08!

by rigsoHC on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We can hope they get reformed for 2012. (none / 0)

I'm right there with you that caucuses are stupid, even if they benefit Obama.

But, as with everything else, you can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 1)

if you look at those electoral maps at www.electoral-vote.com

And these are just "projections" of course

Obama may pick up Iowa and North Dakota. But winning Iowa and North Dakota do not even come close to offsetting just one loss of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, or Ohio.

He would have to win about 10 small states to equal one Pennsylvania. It is not to say that those states "don't matter" (as Obama supporters are prone to mis-interpret), they do. Just that Pennsylvania and Ohio and Florida and Michigan matter more. A lot more.

Dean's 50-state strategy will be in the trash-bin of ideas after November, at least as far as Presidential elections. Because of the Electoral College, it still comes down to a few larger key states.

by WolfmanJack on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:00:44 PM EST

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

And you have no way of proving Hillary will win
Pennsylvania, Ohio Florida and Michigan either.
And again OFF with their head of anyone who is perceived being un-Pro Hillary.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

no, of course not. We are all speculating. But if you want to do better than speculation, the "electoral maps" over at electoral-vote.com are based on polling data.

Yes, that could change. But as of now, Hillary looks far stronger in those states than does Obama. And I think the webmaster at that site is pro-Obama.

So, if you like data, there it is, www.electoral-vote.com

by WolfmanJack on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

UTAH ETC does not matter to a Democratic nominee for President its a fact that Obama fans better wake up and realize!

by rossinatl on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:10:47 PM EST

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (none / 0)

Again with the states that don't matter.
Last I checked we are the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
how about we work on that.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 6)

Barack Obama is exactly the type of candidate that necessitated the creation of the Superdelegates to begin with. He runs hot through the primary/caucus process because he attracts the rabid devotion of a niche group (or two) only to be overwhelmed by the electoral college system in the General Election. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear as if enough of those bequeathed the power of the SD vote will have the spine to go against Senator Obama despite the fact he doesn't have enough support in crucial swing states like Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, and (apparently) Pennsylvania. I believe he has a shot in Virginia (which went for him in a big way during the Primary vote and has been trending 'Dem') but Missouri is lost to him against McCain as recent polling -- where he trails by enormous numbers -- indicates.

As for the general rallying cry from the Obamaniacs: I don't care that Barack Obama has more delegates - he got most of them through caucuses in states destined to go Republican in November. Are we really going to let a few thousand caucus-goers in Idaho or Utah decide who our Democratic representative will be? Remember: There are no caucuses in November He has a difficulty winning the primaries in major Democratic and swing states, which does not bode well for his chances in a few months, particularly since he has already peaked. His numbers have nowhere to go but down, especially with the GOP salivating over the Rev. Wright video and the other video showing Obama standing next to Gov. Richardson and Sen. Clinton during the Pledge of Allegiance with his arms noticably at his side while Richardson and Clinton both have their hands over their hearts. This is the kind of thing that won't mean anything to Democrats, especially the Dems who populate political blogs, but it will be HUGE in the general election.

Nominating Senator Obama is suicidal for the Democrats but, then again, what else is new?

by Shoot4theMoon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:29:06 PM EST

Cry me a river (none / 0)

Now you're trying to bring Obamas parriotism into question??? More Repub talking points from people trying to pass themselves off as Democrats.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

I question his patriotism. There. I said it.

You know what's a great Republican talking point? The idea that you are not allowed to question someone's patriotism, and therefore everything they say and do is correct. That is what they will tell you about John McCain.

So, no, I don't buy that. I will question everything about a man who has asked me if he can have the job of President of the United States. And I have absolutely no shame for doing that.

Those who refuse to question Barack, who refuse to take a serious look at the man and his career and his campaign, are the ones that are doing the party a disservice, in my opinion.

Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08

by bobbank on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

So then define what you think is patriotic.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

We can have a discussion of how one demonstrates one's patriotism, but that isn't the point. The point is that you act as if it is outrageous or inappropriate to question Barack Obama's character.

I believe it is not only appropriate but prudent, and I would say that about any candidate. Putting it another way, I'm asking you to lay off the fake outrage machine; we get enough of that tactic from Republicans.

Cheers.

Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08

by bobbank on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

Excuse me, but you brought up Obamas patriotism and I asked for your definition, nowhere did I state it was inappropriate for you to question Obamas character. I only asked for clarification of your definition of patriotism. Which you still haven't defined. And now you accuse me of fake outrage and you do it with FAKE OUTRAGE OF YOUR
OWN. Boy that's rich!

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

Actually, I did no such thing.

I suggest you try reading next time.

Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08

by bobbank on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:48:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

So you didn't bring up Obamas patriotism??

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

Nope.

Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08

by bobbank on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

Democrats "patriotism" is often "questioned" when running against Republicans. Although John Kerry fought in VietNam, he later came out against the war, hence, the same theme.

With McCain as their candidate, you can bet they will do this again. EVEN I put my hand over my heart during the national anthem, and I am not running for public office. There is no reason for Obama to make it easy for them. Likewise his wife's comments

Of course it is a bogus issue, what else did we expect? The Republicans usually "win" on bogus "emotional" issues. They put the current Monkey-President in office that way.

by WolfmanJack on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

Sorry, wolfman, but I am not afraid of the Republican attack machine. And if they want to win on the patriotic issue all we have to do is have them define what patriotism is. Putting your hand over your heart or wearing a flag button means nothing. Saving American lives by gettin them out of harms way Is patriotic.

by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

most Americans already "feel" what patriotism is, they don't need and won't listen to a "definition".

It is not Democratic voters who will turn this election, it is Independents in a few swing states.

Americans don't vote based on "definitions" and reasoning. Democrats do. But most Americans "feel" what seems right. McCain will "feel" right to millions of Independents. Obama will "feel wrong". Sorty that is just my take, having lived in mostly red states for 49 years.

by WolfmanJack on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cry me a river (none / 0)

I'm not questioning his patriotism -- I'm saying it will continue to be brought up by the GOP throughout November. It's their brand for him, like "flip-flop" was for Kerry, "lying intellectual" was for Gore and "wimp" was for Dukakis. The video of him not putting his hand over his heart while Richardson and Clinton (standing right beside him) do is out there and it's going to be used in an ad against him and it WILL resonate with more people than many progressive Democrats will ever be comfortable admitting is possible.

by Shoot4theMoon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Kind of Frontrunner is this ? (2.00 / 1)

As strong supporter of Hillary, I did not find this diary constructive, to be candid. I think you could have made your same points in a way that would be more readable to folks that are in the middle between these two camps. After all, those are the ones we really need to be talking to right now.

Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08

by bobbank on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:50:51 PM EST

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